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Difference between revisions of "User:Kendra Brown/Florius/English MS Latin 11269 21r"
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| == Latin verse from P-D and English prose from Getty== | == Latin verse from P-D and English prose from Getty== | ||
| − | {| | + | {| class="master" style="width: 90em;" | 
| |- | |- | ||
| − | |  | + | | class="noline" | {{section|Page:Pisani-Dossi MS 06a.jpg|6a-a}} | 
| − | + | | class="noline" |   | |
| − | + | Why do I carry a dagger in my right hand? I carry it for my art because I've deserved it well, since if anyone attacks me with a dagger, I take it from their hand. And with that, I'd know how to wound and finish well because I know all the pros and cons.   | |
| − | + | | class="noline" | {{section|Page:MS Ludwig XV 13 10r.jpg|10r-a}} | |
| − | |  | ||
| − | Why do I carry a dagger in my right hand? I carry it for my art | ||
| − | |  | ||
| |- | |- | ||
| − | + | | {{section|Page:Pisani-Dossi MS 06a.jpg|6a-b}} | |
| − | + | |   | |
| − | + | Through the broken arms I carry, I want to say that my art (to tell the truth) has broken and dislocated many in my life, and whoever wants to set himself against the art I want to make, I'm always ready to want to use such art.   | |
| − | + | | {{section|Page:MS Ludwig XV 13 10r.jpg|10r-b}} | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| |- | |- | ||
| − | + | | {{section|Page:Pisani-Dossi MS 06a.jpg|6a-c}} | |
| − | + | |   | |
| − | + | I'm the master of opening and also of closing—that is, [enclosing] the arms of those who want to go against me. I'll thrust them into great contention and suffering through the binds and breaks that are drawn. Thus, I carry a key to show that this art is well worthy of me. | |
| − | + | | {{section|Page:MS Ludwig XV 13 10r.jpg|10r-c}} | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | I  | ||
| − | |||
| |- | |- | ||
| − | + | | {{section|Page:Pisani-Dossi MS 06a.jpg|6a-d}} | |
| − | + | |   | |
| − | + | You were asking me why I hold this man under my feet? Because I've put thousands in such a match through the art of wrestling. In victory, I carry the palm in my right hand because I will never cease in my wrestling.   | |
| − | + | | {{section|Page:MS Ludwig XV 13 10r.jpg|10r-d}} | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | You were asking me why I  | ||
| − | |||
| |} | |} | ||
| ==English 21r== | ==English 21r== | ||
| − | ===Florius=== | + | <noinclude>===Florius=== | 
| </noinclude> | </noinclude> | ||
| − | <poem> | + | <poem>✅For instance, I signify as safe, using the palm, thus I carry off the dagger.   | 
| Everything having been carried off in victory, I lift that same [dagger] with my hand. | Everything having been carried off in victory, I lift that same [dagger] with my hand. | ||
| − | + | ✅When I conquer all the ones who can be warlike with me, | |
| − | I | + | I am distinguished by these arms in accordance with the broken hands I carry. | 
| − | |||
| + | ✅I secure the confined arms from all people waging war in the region | ||
| + | In such a way that they are unable to extend the right hand / | ||
| + | Thus I now joyfully collect two keys in [my] hands. | ||
| − | < | + | ✅You ask why I, with glory, destroy such excellent ones under my feet. | 
| + | Because, with the palm extended in our right hand, I assert to all men,  | ||
| + | you will be overthrown by wrestling, indeed, you will be stopped. | ||
| + | </poem> | ||
| ===Pisani-Dossi=== | ===Pisani-Dossi=== | ||
| <poem> | <poem> | ||
| − | + | ✅For instance I sign the safe palm, thus I bring home the dagger. | |
| Everything having been carried off in victory, I lift that same [dagger] with my hand. | Everything having been carried off in victory, I lift that same [dagger] with my hand. | ||
| − | + | ✅When I conquer all the ones who can be warlike with me, | |
| − | By Pollux, I carry arms  | + | By Pollux, I carry arms, distinguished by the broken hands<ref>Ablative absolute: the hands being distinguished by being broken</ref>. | 
| + | |||
| + | ✅I secure the confined arms from all people waging war in the region | ||
| + | In such a way that they are unable to extend the right hand / | ||
| + | Thus I now joyfully collect two keys in [my] hands. | ||
| + | |||
| + | ✅You ask why I, with glory, destroy such excellent ones under my feet. | ||
| + | because with our palm extended, I assert to all men,  | ||
| + | you will be overthrown by wrestling, indeed, your right hand will be stopped. | ||
| </poem> | </poem> | ||
| ==Notes== | ==Notes== | ||
| + | ===Verse 2=== | ||
| + | * "ornatis lacertis" (something like "decorated with arms/shoulders") seems like it might mean something like modern slang "with guns out" (in the arm muscles sense) | ||
| + | * "pol" in Latin is an abbreviated phrase for "by Pollux!" - note similarity to pollex, meaning thumb.  The zodiac twins Castor and Pollux are associated with wrestling. | ||
| − | *  | + | ===Verse 3=== | 
| − | *  | + | * letus (lioness) could be an alternate spelling of laetus (happy) | 
| + | * clavus = nail, clavis = key, clavas = rough club/tree branch/cudgel | ||
| + | * conclavans = nailed together, having keys, with stripes of rank | ||
| + | * clavatas/conclavatas = studded/hobnailed/decorated with nails | ||
| + | * conclaudas is a reasonable reading of this abbreviation and matches the Italian better. | ||
| + | * orbe = territory or bereft | ||
| + | * Janus or Mercury might carry a clavis, Hercules carries a clavas | ||
| ==Images== | ==Images== | ||
Latest revision as of 19:14, 5 August 2025
Contents
Latin 21r
Nam palma tutam signo sic defero dagam.
Cum manibus tollam cunctis gestantibus ipsam.
- Cum cunctos superem qui possunt bellica mecum
 Pro manibus fractis ornatus porto lacertis.
Brachia conclaudas cunctis bellantibus orbe
Taliter ut dextram nequeant praetendere tutam /
Nunc letus claves manibus sic congero binas.
- Queris cur pedibus pessundo gloria tales
 Cur luctando viros dico prosternere cuntos
 Palma quidem nostra praetenditur sistere dextra.
Latin verse from P-D and English prose from Getty
| [6a-a] Nam palmam tutam signo sic refero dagam | Why do I carry a dagger in my right hand? I carry it for my art because I've deserved it well, since if anyone attacks me with a dagger, I take it from their hand. And with that, I'd know how to wound and finish well because I know all the pros and cons. | [10r-a] ¶ Per che io porto daga in mia mane dritta, io la porto per mia arte che lla o ben meritada, che zaschun che me trara di daga, io gle'la toro di mano. E cum quella lo savero ben ferire, pero che lo pro e'l contra del tutto so finire. | 
| [6a-b] Cum cuntos superem qui possunt bellica mecum | Through the broken arms I carry, I want to say that my art (to tell the truth) has broken and dislocated many in my life, and whoever wants to set himself against the art I want to make, I'm always ready to want to use such art. | [10r-b] ¶ Per gli brazzi rotti ch'io porto, io voglio dir mia arte, ch'e questa senza voler mentire, che assaii n'o rotti e dislogadi in mia vita, e chi contra mia arte se mettera voler fare, Tal arte sempre io son per voler usare. | 
| [6a-c] Brachia cumclaudas cuntis bellantibus orbe | I'm the master of opening and also of closing—that is, [enclosing] the arms of those who want to go against me. I'll thrust them into great contention and suffering through the binds and breaks that are drawn. Thus, I carry a key to show that this art is well worthy of me. | [10r-c] ¶ Io son magistro de avrire e anche di serare zoe gli brazi a chi contra mi vol fare, yo lo mettero in grande brige e stente per modo che le ligadure e rotture sono depente. E per zo porto le chiave per insegna, che tal arte ben m'e degna. | 
| [6a-d] Queris cur pedibus pessundo gloria talles | You were asking me why I hold this man under my feet? Because I've put thousands in such a match through the art of wrestling. In victory, I carry the palm in my right hand because I will never cease in my wrestling. | [10r-d] ¶ Me domandavoii per che io tegno questo homo sotto gli miei piedi, per che miglara n'o posti a tale partito per l'arte dello Abrazare. E per vittoria io porto la palma in la man destra pero che dello abrazare za mai non fo resta. | 
English 21r
Florius
✅For instance, I signify as safe, using the palm, thus I carry off the dagger. 
Everything having been carried off in victory, I lift that same [dagger] with my hand.
✅When I conquer all the ones who can be warlike with me,
I am distinguished by these arms in accordance with the broken hands I carry.
✅I secure the confined arms from all people waging war in the region
In such a way that they are unable to extend the right hand /
Thus I now joyfully collect two keys in [my] hands.
✅You ask why I, with glory, destroy such excellent ones under my feet.
Because, with the palm extended in our right hand, I assert to all men, 
you will be overthrown by wrestling, indeed, you will be stopped.
Pisani-Dossi
✅For instance I sign the safe palm, thus I bring home the dagger.
Everything having been carried off in victory, I lift that same [dagger] with my hand.
✅When I conquer all the ones who can be warlike with me,
By Pollux, I carry arms, distinguished by the broken hands[1].
✅I secure the confined arms from all people waging war in the region
In such a way that they are unable to extend the right hand /
Thus I now joyfully collect two keys in [my] hands.
✅You ask why I, with glory, destroy such excellent ones under my feet.
because with our palm extended, I assert to all men, 
you will be overthrown by wrestling, indeed, your right hand will be stopped.
Notes
Verse 2
- "ornatis lacertis" (something like "decorated with arms/shoulders") seems like it might mean something like modern slang "with guns out" (in the arm muscles sense)
- "pol" in Latin is an abbreviated phrase for "by Pollux!" - note similarity to pollex, meaning thumb. The zodiac twins Castor and Pollux are associated with wrestling.
Verse 3
- letus (lioness) could be an alternate spelling of laetus (happy)
- clavus = nail, clavis = key, clavas = rough club/tree branch/cudgel
- conclavans = nailed together, having keys, with stripes of rank
- clavatas/conclavatas = studded/hobnailed/decorated with nails
- conclaudas is a reasonable reading of this abbreviation and matches the Italian better.
- orbe = territory or bereft
- Janus or Mercury might carry a clavis, Hercules carries a clavas
Images
|   |   | 
|   |   | 
- ↑ Ablative absolute: the hands being distinguished by being broken


