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  Munich 81r = Munich PDF page 7
 
  Munich 81r = Munich PDF page 7
 +
{{Latin Lew nav}}
 +
[[File:Cod.icon._393_I_081r.jpg|thumb|Page scan]]
  
 
== Missing zettel verses from PHM Dresden 84r (Dresden PDF page 5) ==
 
== Missing zettel verses from PHM Dresden 84r (Dresden PDF page 5) ==
 
+
[[File:MS_Dresd.C.93_084r.png|thumb|Page image]]
 
=== German ===
 
=== German ===
: Junng Ritter Leren   
+
# Junng Ritter Leren   
: Got lieb haben / frawen vnd Junckhfrawen/ Eern.   
+
# Got lieb haben / frawen vnd Junckhfrawen/ Eern.   
: so wechst dein Lerrn /   
+
# so wechst dein Lerrn /   
: Vnnd Leren   
+
# Vnnd Leren   
: ding das sich zieret /   
+
# ding das sich zieret /   
: Vnnd Inn kriegen seer hoffieret /   
+
# Vnnd Inn kriegen seer hoffieret /   
: Rinngens guote fesser /   
+
# Rinngens guote fesser /   
: Glorien schwert vnnd messer /   
+
# Glorien schwert vnnd messer /   
: Mannlichen bederben /   
+
# Mannlichen bederben /   
: Vnnd Inn anndern hennden verderben /   
+
# Vnnd Inn anndern hennden verderben /   
: Haw darein vnnd triffe. dar   
+
# Haw darein vnnd triffe. dar   
: lasse hengen. vnnd lasse far /   
+
# lasse hengen. vnnd lasse far /   
: das man dein weysz /   
+
# das man dein weysz /   
: mög Maisterlichen Preysz.   
+
# mög Maisterlichen Preysz.   
  
 
=== English ===
 
=== English ===
: Young knight, learn   
+
# Young knight, learn   
: to love God and honour women and virgins,   
+
# to love God and honour married and unmarried women,   
: thus your honour will grow.   
+
# thus your learning will grow.   
: And learn things that adorn  
+
# And learn
: and serve you well in a knightly way in wars.  
+
# [the] thing that beautifies itself  
: Use in a manly way wrestling’s good holds,
+
# and serves you well in a knightly way in wars:  
: glories of sword and messer,
+
# [and learn {line 4}] to virily utilize [from line 9]
: [incorporated 2 lines up]
+
# wrestling’s good holds,
: what is ruined in other hands.
+
# glories of sword and messer,  
: Strike in and hit there,   
+
# and to ruin [that list] in other hands.
: let it hang and let it go,   
+
# Cut in and hit there,   
: so that one can praise you ways   
+
# let it hang and let it move,   
: most masterly.
+
# so that one can praise you ways   
 
+
# most masterly.
  
 
== 81r a ==
 
== 81r a ==
Line 39: Line 41:
 
=== 81r a Latin (Sandbox) ===
 
=== 81r a Latin (Sandbox) ===
 
'''Brevis Habituum''' Ensis longioris expositio
 
'''Brevis Habituum''' Ensis longioris expositio
 
+
# {{red|'''Prima''' omnium cura sit ut colas deum et ames,}}
# '''Prima''' omnium cura sit ut colas deum et ames,
+
# {{red|muliebrem sexum honores,}}
# muliebrem sexum honores,
+
# {{red|et eo modo gloria tua augebitur:}}
# et eo modo gloria tua augebitur:
+
# {{red|eo discas,}}
# eo discas,
+
# {{red|quae te deceant,}}
# quae te deceant,
+
# {{red|in bello et ubique virtute et robore virium utere,}}
# in bello et ubique virtute et robore virium utere,
+
# {{red|ita ut fortitudo tua omnibus probetur.}}
# ita ut fortitudo tua omnibus probetur.
 
  
 
=== 81r a English (Sandbox) ===
 
=== 81r a English (Sandbox) ===
 
Brief statement of the character of the longer sword
 
Brief statement of the character of the longer sword
 
+
# {{red|First, you should undertake in all things that you worship and love God,}}
# First, you should undertake in all things that you worship and love God,
+
# {{red|you should honor the feminine sex,}}
# you should honor the feminine sex,
+
# {{red|and your fame will be increased by this means:}}
# and your fame will be increased by this means:
+
# {{red|therefore, you should learn,}}
# therefore, you should learn,
+
# {{red|any of these things would be fitting,}}
# any of these things would be fitting,
+
# {{red|use the force and strength of oaks everywhere and in (beautiful) war,}}
# use the force and strength of oaks everywhere and in (beautiful) war,
+
# {{red|thus that your fortitude is approved by all.}}
# thus that your fortitude is approved by all.
 
  
 
== Missing Zettel verses from PHM Dresden 84r (Dresden PDF page 5) ==
 
== Missing Zettel verses from PHM Dresden 84r (Dresden PDF page 5) ==
Line 68: Line 68:
  
 
=== English ===
 
=== English ===
: If you want to see the art,   
+
: If you want to behold the art,   
: left go right with striking  
+
: Look to the left, go to the right with cuts,  
: and left with the right   
+
: and to the left with the right ones  
: if you aim to fence strongly.   
+
: if you desire to fence strongly.   
  
  
Line 91: Line 91:
 
# quam par est,  
 
# quam par est,  
 
# apparebit,  
 
# apparebit,  
# neque vero ad dextrum latus rite potest exerceri. <br/><br/>
+
# neque vero ad dextrum latus rite potest exerceri.
 +
#: &nbsp;
 
# Sin autem dextrum praeposueris,  
 
# Sin autem dextrum praeposueris,  
 
# et de latere sinistro ferias,  
 
# et de latere sinistro ferias,  
Line 122: Line 123:
 
# however suitable it is,
 
# however suitable it is,
 
# [moved to 12]
 
# [moved to 12]
# truly cannot be employed properly toward the right side. <br/><br/>
+
# truly cannot be employed properly toward the right side.  
 +
#: &nbsp;
 
# but if, however, you should set the right before,
 
# but if, however, you should set the right before,
 
# and strike from the left side,
 
# and strike from the left side,
Line 137: Line 139:
  
 
=== 81r b notes ===
 
=== 81r b notes ===
: [^1],[^2] falsch/falsus=fallere appear to be the translator’s attempt at a cognate, which fails.
+
* [^1],[^2] falsch/falsus=fallere appear to be the translator’s attempt at a cognate, which fails.
: [^3] from? "de"
+
* [^3] from? "de"
  
 
== Missing zettel verse from PHM Dresden 84v (Dresden PDF page 6) ==
 
== Missing zettel verse from PHM Dresden 84v (Dresden PDF page 6) ==
Line 147: Line 149:
  
 
=== English ===
 
=== English ===
: Who goes after[^4] the strikes   
+
: Who follows[^4] the strikes   
: may take little pleasure in his art.   
+
: may find little in the art.   
  
 
=== notes ===
 
=== notes ===
: [^4] Going after can have a chronological or a spatial meaning. Again we witness the ambiguity of master Liechtenauer’s verses.
+
* [^4] Following can have a chronological or a spatial meaning. Again we witness the ambiguity of master Liechtenauer’s verses.
  
 
== 81r c ==
 
== 81r c ==
Line 160: Line 162:
 
# eius ictum expectans sed semper exerceas.  
 
# eius ictum expectans sed semper exerceas.  
 
# Nam omnes Athletae,  
 
# Nam omnes Athletae,  
# qui id faciunt,  
+
# qui id faciunt[^1],  
 
# Athletica non gaudeant,  
 
# Athletica non gaudeant,  
 
# quoniam saepissimé laeduntur.  
 
# quoniam saepissimé laeduntur.  
Line 172: Line 174:
 
# do not rejoice in athleticness,
 
# do not rejoice in athleticness,
 
# because they are often struck.
 
# because they are often struck.
 +
 +
 +
* [^1] This is a general, non-specific work around for 'versetzen'.
  
 
== 81r d ==
 
== 81r d ==
Line 177: Line 182:
 
=== 81r d latin ===
 
=== 81r d latin ===
 
# '''Item''' cum ad hostem concesseris,  
 
# '''Item''' cum ad hostem concesseris,  
# quocunque habitu uti voles,  
+
# quocunque habitu[^3] uti voles,  
 
# facito id pro animi Viribus et corporis,  
 
# facito id pro animi Viribus et corporis,  
 
# caputque ipsius ferire curato,  
 
# caputque ipsius ferire curato,  
 
# et ea ratione adversarium coges,  
 
# et ea ratione adversarium coges,  
# ut se tueatur,  
+
# ut se tueatur[^2],  
 
# neque unquam transmutationes assumere possit.  
 
# neque unquam transmutationes assumere possit.  
 
# mucro enim tui in ensis eum praepediet.  
 
# mucro enim tui in ensis eum praepediet.  
Line 192: Line 197:
 
=== 81r d English ===
 
=== 81r d English ===
 
# Item when you would have withdrawn  toward the opponent,
 
# Item when you would have withdrawn  toward the opponent,
# and you will wish to use the gesture,
+
# and you will wish to use whatever skills,
 
# make it according to the Strength of spirit and body,
 
# make it according to the Strength of spirit and body,
 
# and take care to strike his head,
 
# and take care to strike his head,
 
# and you will compel the adversary by this method,
 
# and you will compel the adversary by this method,
# in order that he look out for it,
+
# in order that he defend himself,
 
# and neither will he be able/it be possible to take up change-abouts at any time.   
 
# and neither will he be able/it be possible to take up change-abouts at any time.   
 
# Your sword's point (in fact) will prevent his advance.
 
# Your sword's point (in fact) will prevent his advance.
Line 206: Line 211:
  
 
=== 81r d notes ===
 
=== 81r d notes ===
 +
* [^2] This is a genera, non-specific work around for 'versetzen'.
 +
* [^3]: 'habitu' here is used as an equivalent for 'fechten', or the entire skill set.
 
* could this be a weird thing where Latin Scribe is ignoring the dictionary meaning of concedo and is doing "like accesseris, but con because you're both doing it"? or mixed congressu and accesseris?
 
* could this be a weird thing where Latin Scribe is ignoring the dictionary meaning of concedo and is doing "like accesseris, but con because you're both doing it"? or mixed congressu and accesseris?
 
**conclusion: no recorded meaning of concedo makes any sense here; we assume the scribe was trying to make up a word ignoring prior meanings. we've declared it shall be "move together."
 
**conclusion: no recorded meaning of concedo makes any sense here; we assume the scribe was trying to make up a word ignoring prior meanings. we've declared it shall be "move together."

Latest revision as of 04:34, 26 March 2023

Munich 81r = Munich PDF page 7

Previous (80v)Next (81v)

Page scan

Missing zettel verses from PHM Dresden 84r (Dresden PDF page 5)

Page image

German

  1. Junng Ritter Leren
  2. Got lieb haben / frawen vnd Junckhfrawen/ Eern.
  3. so wechst dein Lerrn /
  4. Vnnd Leren
  5. ding das sich zieret /
  6. Vnnd Inn kriegen seer hoffieret /
  7. Rinngens guote fesser /
  8. Glorien schwert vnnd messer /
  9. Mannlichen bederben /
  10. Vnnd Inn anndern hennden verderben /
  11. Haw darein vnnd triffe. dar
  12. lasse hengen. vnnd lasse far /
  13. das man dein weysz /
  14. mög Maisterlichen Preysz.

English

  1. Young knight, learn
  2. to love God and honour married and unmarried women,
  3. thus your learning will grow.
  4. And learn
  5. [the] thing that beautifies itself
  6. and serves you well in a knightly way in wars:
  7. [and learn {line 4}] to virily utilize [from line 9]
  8. wrestling’s good holds,
  9. glories of sword and messer,
  10. and to ruin [that list] in other hands.
  11. Cut in and hit there,
  12. let it hang and let it move,
  13. so that one can praise you ways
  14. most masterly.

81r a

81r a Latin (Sandbox)

Brevis Habituum Ensis longioris expositio

  1. Prima omnium cura sit ut colas deum et ames,
  2. muliebrem sexum honores,
  3. et eo modo gloria tua augebitur:
  4. eo discas,
  5. quae te deceant,
  6. in bello et ubique virtute et robore virium utere,
  7. ita ut fortitudo tua omnibus probetur.

81r a English (Sandbox)

Brief statement of the character of the longer sword

  1. First, you should undertake in all things that you worship and love God,
  2. you should honor the feminine sex,
  3. and your fame will be increased by this means:
  4. therefore, you should learn,
  5. any of these things would be fitting,
  6. use the force and strength of oaks everywhere and in (beautiful) war,
  7. thus that your fortitude is approved by all.

Missing Zettel verses from PHM Dresden 84r (Dresden PDF page 5)

German

Wiltu Kunnst schawen
Sich Linnckh ganng recht mit hawen
Vnnd linnckh mit rechten
Ob du starckh gerest fechen •

English

If you want to behold the art,
Look to the left, go to the right with cuts,
and to the left with the right ones
if you desire to fence strongly.


81r b

81r b Latin (Sandbox)

  1. Prima admonitio,
  2. primum operam dabis,
  3. ut Ictus,
  4. qui mox describentur,
  5. artificiose ferire possis more Athletico,
  6. si fortem gladiatorem te exhibere volveris.
  7. Cum pedem sinistrum praefixeris,
  8. atque de latere dextro ferias,
  9. iam deceptus,
  10. et ictus est falsus, [^1]
  11. nam dextrum latus non sequetur,
  12. et ictus brevior,
  13. quam par est,
  14. apparebit,
  15. neque vero ad dextrum latus rite potest exerceri.
     
  16. Sin autem dextrum praeposueris,
  17. et de latere sinistro ferias,
  18. nec sinistro fueris subsequutus,
  19. tum rursus falleris. [^2]
  20. ea propter curabis,
  21. ut,
  22. si de latere dextro ictum regis,
  23. statim subsequaris pede itidem dextro in ipso ictu.
  24. Idem facies,
  25. si de sinistro ferias,
  26. et ea ratione commodissime corpus adcommodabis,
  27. ictusque porrecti et more gladiatorio formabuntur.


81r b English (Sandbox)

  1. First reminder,
  2. first you will dedicate the work,
  3. so that the Strike,
  4. which will soon be described,
  5. you will be able to strike skillfully in the custom of Athletics,
  6. if you would have wished to produce a strong gladiator.
  7. When you set the left foot in front,
  8. and strike to[^3] the right side,
  9. now he/it has been deceived,
  10. and the strike is false,
  11. on the other hand, if he/it will not follow on the right side
  12. and it will be clear that a short blow,
  13. however suitable it is,
  14. [moved to 12]
  15. truly cannot be employed properly toward the right side.
     
  16. but if, however, you should set the right before,
  17. and strike from the left side,
  18. and do not follow immediately with the left,
  19. then you are deceived in turn.
  20. Take care, on account of these things,
  21. so that,
  22. if you direct the blow from the right side,
  23. you would immediately follow with the right foot likewise in the same thrust.
  24. You will do the same,
  25. if you strike from the left,
  26. and you will adapt the body at the right moment to this method,
  27. and the extended strikes are shaped by gladiatorial custom.

81r b notes

  • [^1],[^2] falsch/falsus=fallere appear to be the translator’s attempt at a cognate, which fails.
  • [^3] from? "de"

Missing zettel verse from PHM Dresden 84v (Dresden PDF page 6)

German

Wer nach geet hawen
Der darf sich Kunnst wenig frawen

English

Who follows[^4] the strikes
may find little in the art.

notes

  • [^4] Following can have a chronological or a spatial meaning. Again we witness the ambiguity of master Liechtenauer’s verses.

81r c

81r c latin

  1. Si feriundo ad hostem accesseris,
  2. ense regendo ne cesses,
  3. eius ictum expectans sed semper exerceas.
  4. Nam omnes Athletae,
  5. qui id faciunt[^1],
  6. Athletica non gaudeant,
  7. quoniam saepissimé laeduntur.

81r c english

  1. If you approached toward the enemy having been struck,
  2. do not hold back while directing the sword,
  3. however, if you always make a habit of awaiting/looking out for his strike.
  4. For all Athletes,
  5. who do this,
  6. do not rejoice in athleticness,
  7. because they are often struck.


  • [^1] This is a general, non-specific work around for 'versetzen'.

81r d

81r d latin

  1. Item cum ad hostem concesseris,
  2. quocunque habitu[^3] uti voles,
  3. facito id pro animi Viribus et corporis,
  4. caputque ipsius ferire curato,
  5. et ea ratione adversarium coges,
  6. ut se tueatur[^2],
  7. neque unquam transmutationes assumere possit.
  8. mucro enim tui in ensis eum praepediet.
  9. Sin autem parte fortiori,
  10. qu[a?]e est pars á cruce usque ad medium ensis hostis tuum gladium contigerit,
  11. brachium eius sinistrum saucies,
  12. atque inde recedas,
  13. priusquam id cognoverit.

81r d English

  1. Item when you would have withdrawn toward the opponent,
  2. and you will wish to use whatever skills,
  3. make it according to the Strength of spirit and body,
  4. and take care to strike his head,
  5. and you will compel the adversary by this method,
  6. in order that he defend himself,
  7. and neither will he be able/it be possible to take up change-abouts at any time.
  8. Your sword's point (in fact) will prevent his advance.
  9. But if, however, with the stronger part,
  10. which is the part from the cross[,] the enemy’s sword continuously contacts your sword toward the middle,
  11. you wound his left shoulder/arm
  12. and thence you withdraw,
  13. before he becomes aware of it

81r d notes

  • [^2] This is a genera, non-specific work around for 'versetzen'.
  • [^3]: 'habitu' here is used as an equivalent for 'fechten', or the entire skill set.
  • could this be a weird thing where Latin Scribe is ignoring the dictionary meaning of concedo and is doing "like accesseris, but con because you're both doing it"? or mixed congressu and accesseris?
    • conclusion: no recorded meaning of concedo makes any sense here; we assume the scribe was trying to make up a word ignoring prior meanings. we've declared it shall be "move together."
  • tueatur means both observe and defend-- like, look out for or look after
  • Interestingly, the Latin scribe does not seem to treat Zufechten as a technical term. The latin term isn't different every time, but there are several distinct words used. (acceseris, concesseris, congressu, pervenire, in conspectu progresseris, fueris progressus)
  • The German usually has a verb (often come) with zufechten (noun), while the latin maybe is combining those into either "during the onset" or or "when somebody approaches"
  • Is Latin trying to separate different shades of the beginning of the fight? eg specifying how many are moving
  • Is there any pattern in the Latin, or is the scribe simply bored by using the same term every time?
  • concesseris appears mostly toward the beginning; pervenire toward the end. It's not exactly a pattern, more like a different favorite 1-2 terms each week they worked on this