User:Kendra Brown/Latin Lew/82v

Munich 82v / PDF page 10

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Missing Zettel verse from Dresden 87r (11)

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German

Biß stercker wider

wind stich sticht ers so niemb es nider

English

Be stronger against,

winding [and] thrust. If he thrusts, then take it down.

Notes

• Bite back harder - be stronger in opposition

82v a

82v a Latin (Sandbox)

Alia cautela.

1. Si contra hostem ira co[m]motus ferias,
2. et is fortiter ensem tenuerit,
3. tuq[ue] habitu supra modò co[m]memorato uti volveris,
4. Vicissim et fortiter resistas,
5. brachia inde si versus latus dextr[um] tuum sustuleris,
6. brevem aciem ab ipsius ense torqueas,
7. atq[ue] supernè visum ipsius pungas,
8. at si adversarius id observarit,
9. sublatoq[ue] ense impetum excep[er]it,
10. in intorsione remaneas,
11. et mucronem infernè hosti adiungito.

82v a English (Sandbox)

Another caution.

1. If you would strike the ire movement against the enemy,
2. and he holds the sword strongly,
3. and you wish to use the gesture the way it is remembered above,
4. and you resist strongly in turn,
5. thence if you would lift the arm toward your right side,
6. you would twist the short edge of the sword away from him,
7. and stab him above in the face,
8. but if the adversary observes this,
9. (the sword having been lifted to take out an attack),
10. you would remain in the wrapping,
11. and direct the point to the opponent below.

82v a English, smoothed

Less close to the page but more englishy:

If he initially held the sword strongly and you turned as in the action above, and you strike Ire against him, then resist strongly in turn.

If you lifted the arm against your right side, then you should twist the short edge of the sword away from him and stab him above in the face,

But if the adversary observed you doing this, and he received/removed the attack by lifting the sword, then you should continue wrapping and direct the point into the opponent below.

Missing Zettel verse from Dresden 87v (12)

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German

Das eben merckh

haw stich leger waich oder hert

Indes vor vnnd nach

vnd hut dem krieg sey nit gach

English

Likewise note this:

cut, thrust, guard, soft or hard;

Indes, before and after.

and defend from the way, do not be quick.

82v b

82v b Latin

Item cum adversarius ex forma punctionis vel Ictus ensem tuu[m] contigerit, in primo conflictu, < tu noli exercere statim Ictus crebros, sed festina lentè, et maximè curabis, ut prius observes nu[m] in ensiu[m] collisione molliter vel fortiter ensem teneat, > Sin id dep[re]henderis, uti poteris intorsionibus, atq[ue] crebris ictibus quem habitum nos Germani bellum appellamus appetendo nuditates proximè obvias.

82v b Latin (Sandbox)

1. Item cum adversarius ex forma punctionis vel Ictus ensem tuum contigerit,
2. in primo conflictu,
3. tu noli exercere statim Ictus crebros,
4. sed festina lentè,
5. et maximè curabis,
6. ut prius observes num in ensium collisione molliter vel fortiter ensem teneat,
7. Sin id deprehenderis,
8. uti poteris intorsionibus,
9. atque crebris ictibus quem habitum nos Germani bellum appellamus appetendo nuditates proximè obvias.

82v b English

Version 1

Also, when the adversary or the strike touches your sword from the form of puncture, in the first conflict, you do not want to immediately employ continuous strikes, but hasten slowly, and you will take the greatest care, in order to observe earlier whether in the striking together of swords, he holds the sword gently or strongly, but if you are able to seize it, so that you are able in the wrapping, and (continuous strikes having been assailed), seek any action we Germans call beautiful warfare, at the closest exposed opening.

Version 2 (Sandbox)

1. Also, when the adversary touches your sword from the form of puncture or strike,
2. in the first fight/conflict,
3. you do not want to immediately administer repeated strikes,
4. but hasten slowly,
5. and you will take the greatest care,
6. in order to observe earlier whether[,] in the striking together of swords[,] he holds the sword gently or strongly,
7. but if you are able to recognize this,
8. you are able to use the wrapping and the frequent strikes,
9. having been assailed[,] you meet/intercept any action we Germans call beautiful/warfare[,] at the closest opening.

Version 2 (Sandbox, smoothed)

1. When the adversary makes contact with your sword
2. during an initial attack,
3. don't immediately try to hit back,
4. but take care to determine quickly whether he holds the sword strongly or gently.
5. If you can tell that,
6. you can use wrappings and continuous strikes,
7. once you have been attacked, to intercept any attack (beautiful and warlike) to the closest opening.

Note the inverted order of clauses in 3-4 to undo the grammatical indes

82v b notes

• two parallel phrases: in the german too
• Note on crebros: if it's related to winden, "continuous" may be a better reading than "repeated"; could there be a sense of "crowded" as in "aggressive, applying threat without letting up"?
  • I have replaced crebris/crebros with continuous
• footnote: festina lente is a well known Latin saying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festina_lente During PHM's lifetime, it's the personal motto of Cosimo de'Medici (duke of Florence 1537-69)
• footnote: molliter is not only "gently" but also "tenderly, affectionately" or even "effeminately"-- there are simpler words available for "weakly" or "less strongly." Fortiter is the most common and simple word for strongly; there are alternatives (in this text) that have more connotations.
• footnote: bellum war/beauty connection
• note from Amy: it's interesting that he brings "we germans" into the explanation, suggesting he (PHM or the writer) sees the audience as not German, or not truly German

Missing Zettel verse from Dresden 87v (12)

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Zettel German

Was der krieg oben rempt*

niden wirt er beschempt

Zettel English

Whatever the war makes room for above,

he is ashamed below.

• räumen can mean to clear the boards

82v c

82v c Latin (Sandbox)

1. Habitus, quem nos bellum appellamus est,
2. cum intorsionibus et quicquod inde per mucronem versus quatour nuditates formatur,
3. utimur.
4. Verum eum hac ratione exercebis:
5. Si contra hostem Ictum ex ira appellationem adeptum ferias,
6. isque, cum exceperit,
7. sublatis brachiis,
8. mucronem ensis tui iuxta ipsius ensem superne contra hostis supernam nuditatem lateris sinistri.
9. Verum si eam vim removerit,
10. in habitu intorsionis consistere memineris,
11. sed mucronem deorsum convertas in latus sinistrum.
12. At si adversarius id quoque removeat,
13. tunc inferiores eius nuditates lateris dextri mucrone investiges,
14. et si id etiam repellat,
15. tu ense sublato in latus sinistrum,
16. contra latus hostis dextrum mucronem nuditates supernas inquirendo inmittas,
17. itaque habitum belli vel militiae infernè et supernè hostis exagitabitur,
18. si quidem eum iuxta Athletarum veram instructionem exercueris.

82v c English

Version 1 (sandbox)

1. The action, which we call beautiful warfare,
2. when twirling and thence through/by the point shaped/formed against four openings,
3. it uses it[masc]
4. certainly you will train/practice/drill by this method:
5. If you would strike against the enemy a winning stroke called from ire,
6. and it/he, having received it,
7. the arms having been lifted,
8. the point of your sword joins his sword above against the enemy above the opening of the left side.
9. Certainly if he were to withdraw his strength,
10. in the action of twirling you will remember to take a stand,
11. but you change the point below into the left side.
12. And if the adversary would withdraw it that,
13. now seek out with the point his lower opening of the right side,
14. and if he would likewise thrust it back,
15. with the sword lift into the left side,
16. against the right side of the enemy you send the sword in [as a] means of seeking out the upper openings,

Alternate ending 1

17-18 ver 1: and so he will have attacked/discussed [the] action of beautiful warfare versus soldiering below or above the enemy, if indeed you will exercise/practice that true instruction in the manner of the wrestler/athlete

Alternate ending 2

17-18 ver 2: and so the enemy will be stirred (driven out, harassed, continually disturbed) above and below [???] an action of beautiful war or soldiering (belli and militiae set up as opposites)

Version 2 (Sandbox, partial)

1. The action, which we call beautiful warfare,
2. is formed with twirlings and thence we use by means of the point against the four openings.
3. [merged into 2]
4. Truly you will practice it using this method:
5. if you strike the strike that got its name from Ire against the opponent,
6. and he, when taking out,
7. the arms having been lifted,
8. the point of your sword next to his higher sword against the opponent's upper opening on the left side.

Version 3 (Sandbox)

1. The gesture, which we call beautiful/warfare,
2. when twirling and thence through the point formed toward the four openings,
3. it uses it[masc]
4. truly you will practice using this method:
5. If you would strike a winning stroke called from ire against the enemy,
6. and he, having received it
7. (the arms having been lifted)
8. the point of your sword joins his sword against the enemy above the opening of the left side.
9. Truly if he were to withdraw his strength,
10. in the gesture of twirling you will remember to take a position,
11. but you change the point below into the left side.
12. And if the adversary would withdraw it,
13. now seek out his lower opening of the right side with the point,
14. and if he would likewise thrust it back,
15. with the sword lifted into the left side,
16. in against the right side of the enemy as a means of seeking out the upper openings,
17. and so he will have attacked/discussed the action of beautiful warfare versus soldiering below or above the enemy,
18. if indeed you will exercise/practice that true instruction in the manner of the wrestler/athlete

17 alternate: and so the enemy will be stirred (driven out, harassed, continually disturbed) above and below [???] an action of beautiful war or soldiering (belli and militiae set up as opposites)