User:Kendra Brown/Latin Lew/Piece 019

Dresden

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German

Transcription

[2] Das eben merckh
 haw stich leger waich oder hert
Indes vor vnnd nach
 vnd hut dem krieg sey nit gach

Das ist ain Leer wann Er dir mit ainem haw oder mit ainnem stich an dein schwert pindt so soltu dir mit dem krieg das ist mit dem winden nit zu gach lassen sein. du merckest dann vor gar eben. wann sein schwert an das annder glitzet. oder Im pand waich oder hert ist vnnd als bald du das empfindest so winde Indes vnd arbait mit dem krieg nach der waiche vnnd nit nach der herte zu der nechsten plosze. vnd was haist das vor vnnd das nach das bistu vor gelernet worden.

Sandbox

1. Das eben merckh
2. haw stich leger waich oder hert
3. Indes vor vnnd nach
4. vnd hut dem krieg sey nit gach

1. Das ist ain Leer wann Er dir mit ainem haw oder mit ainnem stich an dein schwert pindt,
2. so soltu dir mit dem krieg das ist mit dem winden nit zu gach lassen sein,
3. du merckest dann vor gar eben,
4. wann sein schwert an das annder glitzet,
5. oder Im pand waich oder hert ist vnnd als bald du das empfindest so winde Indes vnd arbait mit dem krieg nach der waiche vnnd nit nach der herte zu der nechsten ploße,
6. vnd was haist das vor vnnd nach,
7. das bistu vor gelernet worden.

English

Sandbox English from German

1. Take note of this equally:
2. Cut, thrust, stance, soft or hard,
3. Indes, before and after.
4. Guard [yourself] from the war, do not rush in (be inclined to haste/incautious).

1. This is a teaching: Whenever he binds on your sword with a cut or a thrust,
2. you should not allow yourself to be be inclined to rush with the war (that is, with the twists).
3. As you take note in the before, immediately just as
4. when their sword glances on the other,
5. or if he is soft or hard in the bind and as soon as you sense this, Indesly twist and work with the war toward/following the soft and not toward/following the hard to the nearest opening.
6. And this is called the before and after,
7. which you have been previously taught.

Smooth English from German

Take note of this equally:

Cut, thrust, stance, soft or hard,

Indes, before and after.

Guard [yourself] from the war; do not rush in.

This is a teaching/lesson: Whenever he binds on your sword with a cut or a thrust, you should not allow yourself to be be inclined to rush with the war (that is, with the twists). As you take note in the before, immediately, just as their sword glances on the other, or as soon as you sense if he is soft or hard in the bind, Indesly twist and work with the war toward/following the soft and not* toward/following the hard to the nearest opening. And, as you have been previously taught, this is the before and after.

Munich

Page scan

Page:Cod.icon. 393 I 082v.jpg

Latin

Transcription

[2] Alia cautela

Si contra hostem ira commotus ferias, et is fortiter ensem tenuerit, tuque habitu supra modò commemorato uti volveris, Vicissim et fortiter resistas, brachia inde si versus latus dextrum tuum sustuleris, brevem aciem ab ipsius ense torqueas, atque supernè visum ipsius pungas, at si adversarius id observarit, sublatoque ense impetum exceperit, in intorsione remaneas, et mucronem infernè hosti adiungito.

Sandbox

1. Item cum adversarius ex forma punctionis vel Ictus ensem tuum contigerit,
2. in primo conflictu,
3. tu noli exercere statim Ictus crebros,
4. sed festina lentè,
5. et maximè curabis,
6. ut prius observes num in ensium collisione molliter vel fortiter ensem teneat,
7. Sin id deprehenderis,
8. uti poteris intorsionibus,[^1]
9. atque crebris ictibus quem habitum nos Germani bellum appellamus appetendo nuditates proximè obvias.

English

Placeholder text

Sandbox English from Latin

1. Also, when the adversary touches your sword from the form of thrust or strike,
2. in the first conflict,
3. do not immediately practice repeated strikes,
4. but hasten slowly,
5. and you will take the greatest care,
6. in order to observe earlier whether he holds the sword gently or strongly in the striking together of swords,
7. but if you catch this,
8. you are able to use the wrapping,
9. and within the timeframe of the repeated strikes (which is the aspect of the art that we Germans call beautiful/warfare) you attack by closely seeking the opening.

Smooth English from Latin

When the adversary makes contact with your sword during an initial attack, don't immediately try to hit back, but take care to determine quickly whether he holds the sword strongly or gently. If you can catch it, you can use wrappings, and you attack by closely seeking the opening during the repeated strikes (which we Germans call beautiful/warfare).

Notes

See User:Kendra_Brown/Latin_Lew/82v#82v_b_English for an earlier translation we hid but didn't delete.

• [^1]: There is an INDES in the original here.
• two parallel phrases: in the german too
• Note on crebros: if it's related to winden, "continuous" may be a better reading than "repeated"; could there be a sense of "crowded" as in "aggressive, applying threat without letting up"?
  • I have replaced crebris/crebros with continuous
• footnote: festina lente is a well known Latin saying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festina_lente During PHM's lifetime, it's the personal motto of Cosimo de'Medici (duke of Florence 1537-69)
• footnote: molliter is not only "gently" but also "tenderly, affectionately" or even "effeminately"-- there are simpler words available for "weakly" or "less strongly." Fortiter is the most common and simple word for strongly; there are alternatives (in this text) that have more connotations.
• footnote: bellum war/beauty connection
• note from Amy: it's interesting that he brings "we germans" into the explanation, suggesting he (PHM or the writer) sees the audience as not German, or not truly German
• the German for this says krieg=winden, but the Latin translator has made up a new word for krieg and then glossed it, and so has to use that and winden/intorsionibus instead of making them equal to each other.
• This seems not to be a grammatical order indes, but indes implied using references to speed and timing.

Older notes:

Interesting: this bit has complex timing that's hard to convey in words-- neither german nor latin is written in a way you could read out to a student and have them act along; the reader has to comprehend and consider the whole thing These are attempts to describe flow charts without the charts: things either interrupt the action (Latin decisions) or you have to go back and reflect how the decision altered the action (German).

krieg/war mentioned twice here: once it's explained as a phase equal to winding (German only-- Latin has "continuous strikes" but no war or winding), once as a thing you work equal to continuous strikes that comes after winding (Latin only). Jorg Wilhalm Hutter uses "krieg" to mean a particular stage or distance of a fight Krieg from 15thC is a tool relating to the fields of war and construction. So a winch/pulley (winde), both in construction and for ballistas.

So, Latin's basic words for attack are impetus, adgredior, adire, in the meaning of approaching to the point of impact. (impetus = in + peto, seek in. adgredior = ad + gradior = step toward; ad + ire = go up to someone/thing) The impact is the ictus, which is why ictus also means both strike (noun) and wound (noun)

Is ictus hauwen? Sort of-- this translator seems to often use ictus for hauw, but ictus is the hit; hauwen is maybe more like a body movement using a tool? Schlag is closer in meaning and variety to ictus Hau/Haw means to beat or impact something. Hau gets used in the name of the strike, and schlag, stoss, lauf, stich, schiess get used during the description to describe how you get to the impact. Ictus is a generic strike, used instead of a nounified form of any of the verbs used to attack