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User:Kendra Brown/Latin Lew/81v

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Munich 81v / PDF page 8

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Missing zettel verses from PHM Dresden 85r (7)

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German

Hör was da schlecht ist
ficht nit Linck ob du rech bist
Vnnd ob du linckest[^1]
In dem fechten du auch ser hinckest

English

Listen what is bad.
Do not fight left if you are right [handed].
If you con someone in fencing,
you also go astray vastly.


Notes

  • [^1]linken/links//lenken
    • lenken: to take a direction from one side
    • linken: to fall, collapse, sink down
    • links: left side/handed


81v a

81v a Latin (Sandbox)

  1. **Quum** perveneris ad hostem propius,
  2. si dexter sis feriundo,
  3. strenue athleticum exercitium exercere cupiens,
  4. a sinistro latere primum ictum nunquam regas.
  5. In firmior .n. [enim] est,
  6. quam ut hosti resistas in collisione ensium,
  7. verum si de dextro ferias,
  8. tum firmiter poteris resistere,
  9. atque varios habitus[^1] exercere.


81v a English (Sandbox)

  1. When you have arrived closer to the enemy,
  2. If you are striking right[^2]
  3. you want to strenuously practice the exercises of athletics
  4. At no time direct the first cut from the left side.
  5. it is indeed weaker,
  6. than while you resist the enemy in the striking together of swords,
  7. truly if you strike from the right side,
  8. then you can stoutly resist,
  9. and practice various skills.

81v a Notes

  • [^1]: 'habitus' is the equivalent of 'arbeit', or the general work of fencing.
  • [^2]: 'dexter' seems to reflect the punning nature of 'gerecht', which is both correct, right, on the right side.
  • The German has a bunch of information that is missing from the Latin.
  • Which is information about *why* you would do this.
  • However, the Latin is more specific about handedness when discussing the left hand.
  • Grimm: Link
    • \3) link ist der, welcher mit der linken hand das verrichtet, was gewöhnlich mit der rechten gethan wird (verschieden von no. 7 unten): linker, der die linke hand für die rechte braucht,
    • Link is the person, who accomplishes with the left hand, what is usually done with the right hand. (diff. from no 7 below): linker is the person who uses the left hand for the right.


81v b

81v b Latin (Sandbox)

  1. **Sin** autem sinistra manus dextra sit agilior,
  2. etiam tunc primum Ictum de latere dextro non feries,
  3. at potius de sinistro.


81v b English (Sandbox)

  1. But if, however, the left hand is more dexterous than the right,
  2. Then also do not strike the first strike from the right side,
  3. But preferably from the left.


81v b Notes

  • Translating both ictus (noun) and feries (verb) as "strike" is a little weird, since they're not at all the same in Latin, but this is only really a problem when they're both in the same sentence.
  • Note that 81v a says "more skillful striking from the right" where 81v b says "if the left hand is more dextrous than the right"
  • Could these distinctions about handedness be about but the mechanics your opponent can interact with rather than the strength of the strike itself? see "you can stoutly resist"

Missing Zettel verses from PHM Dresden 85v (8)

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German

Vor vnnd nach die zwaÿ ding
Seind aller Kunst ain vrspring
Schweche vnd sterckh
Indes das wort mit merckh
So magstu leren
Mit kunst arbaiten vnd weren
Erschrickstu gern
Kain fechten Nimmer mer gelern

English

Before and after, these two things
are the origin of all art
Weak and strong
and with [them] note the word Indes
This way you can learn
to work and defend artfully.
If you are easily scared/spooked [(implied) by hard work/study/learning],
then you will never learn fencing


81v c

  • So the Latin translator noped out of indes, before, after, strong and weak here (even though later in the text he is willing to work with everything but indes).
  • Latin 81v-c (8c) does not match german 85v-b at all-- line 2.5-5 might match 85v-c (item wann du ehe...) and line 6 onward might match 86r-a

81v c Latin (Sandbox)

  1. In gladiatoria optimum est,
  2. ut observes, quo hostem feriundo praevenias,
  3. id si feceris,
  4. omnes habitus quos exercere voles,
  5. contra eum continuo usurpato.
  6. Ut is cogatur subinde se defendere[^1].
     
  7. Verum si is te praevenerit Ictibus exercendis,
  8. prima cura sit,
  9. ut acriter ense te defendas[^2],
  10. et ea ratione ipsius conatum in nihilum rediges.

81v c English

  1. In fighting it is best,
  2. in order to observe, when you come earlier than the opponent with striking,
  3. If you use "it",
  4. all the skills which you want to practice,
  5. continuing to use against him
  6. in order that HE would have been immediately forced to defend himself.
     
  7. Truly if HE comes earlier than you in carrying out the strike,
  8. the first concern would be,
  9. to defend yourself sharply with the sword,
  10. and using this method, reduce his attempt into nothing.

81v c Notes

  • [^1]: defendere/defendas used as a general, non-specific work around for 'versetzen'.
  • [^2]: 'ense te defendas' used as a general, non-specific work around for 'mit Versatzung', or with/using a stance/guard/counterposture.
  • 3, 5, 4: If you do/cause IT, continue to use any of all the things you want to do against him
  • "coges" appears above when (in translated german) you "force him so he must set aside"; cogatur is a passive form of the same verb
  • "gladiator" appears after this point, meaning something like "fencer," but in forms meaning "fencing" it seems to only appear on this page and the one before it.
  • in addition to indes, the latin scribe has noped out on before/after too-- line 4 is a not-very-close paraphrase of the final clause of german
  • german has two mentions of versetzen; latin has one defend. this has the result that the latin elides the existence of strikes that don't require defense (eg, out of range)
  • "prima cura sit" is weird-- there's nothing like it in the german but also it's oddly specific
  • It does have the teacherly vibe of some of the other German, bedenken, beobachten, etc, but just not here.
  • Latin scribe also completely missed the profoundly parallel pair of paragraphs in the German (when you preempt him/when he preempts you) - Latin provides only a pair of praevenire

81v d

81v d Latin (Sandbox)

  1. **Locus** vel pars ensis firmior is dicitur,
  2. qui continetur a cruce ensis usque eius medium,
  3. infirmior vero a medio ad mucronem usque porrigitur,
  4. quo autem modo eas partes exercere te oporteat,
  5. in sequentibus declarabitur.


81v d English (Sandbox)

  1. The place or the part of the sword is called stouter,
  2. which is contained from the cross of the sword up to its middle,
  3. weaker truly is extended from middle up to the point,
  4. to which purpose it is proper for you to exercise these parts using the method
  5. It will be indicated in the following


81v d Notes

  • Two phrases for one concept; not in German: locus or pars
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