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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Paulus Kal"
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| − | == | + | http://digi.vatlib.it/view/bav_pal_lat_1787/0146 |
| + | |||
| + | == Transcriber's notes (Munich Version) == | ||
| + | |||
| + | {{#lsth: Index talk:Paulus Kal Fechtbuch (Cgm 1507) | Transcriber's notes }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | == Translator's notes == | ||
| + | |||
| + | Removed 'von Mörnsheim' from the preface translation, since that identification is not present in the text. -Tea (2022-03-06) | ||
| + | |||
| + | === Contributors === | ||
* [[Michael Chidester]] | * [[Michael Chidester]] | ||
| + | * [[Cory Winslow]] | ||
| + | |||
| + | == Paulus Kal and supposed service to Ludwig IV "the Gentle" of Wittelsbach == | ||
| + | |||
| + | Further to my recent edit comments on the Kal article, I believe the source of the idea that Kal may have served Ludwig IV of Wittelsbach may be http://www.pragmatische-schriftlichkeit.de/transkription/edition_paulus_kal.pdf, from 2006. This states that Bologna library which holds MS 1825 made a conclusion that Kal served Ludwig IV: "According to the library, this codex was created for Louis IV (1424-†1449, "the Gentle," Elector Palatine of the Wittelsbach family). It is assumed that Kal was approximately 20 years old when he entered the service of Louis IV." However, this claim is not made in any of the archival-based discussions of Kal's life, including Welle's 1993 Und wisse das alle höbischeit kome von dem ringen, Tobler's 2006 In Service of the Duke, or Kleinau's combination of archival and secondary sources at his 2011 article https://talhoffer.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/paulus-kal-a-schirrmeister/. The scope of a statement like this - "According to the library," and the list of the years - can very easily get lost in the shuffle if someone does not track all the way back to the particular place and particular way that this assertion of fact was first stated. If there is a further source for Kal's supposed service to Ludwig IV, then this assertion of fact should be restored to the Kal article; but otherwise, it may be a product of the "game of telephone" as various researchers worked from half-remembered pieces of information spread over more than a decade of blogs, independent websites, scattered publications, etc. -brian p | ||
Latest revision as of 12:38, 28 June 2025
| Work | Author(s) | Source | License |
|---|---|---|---|
| Cgm 1507 Illustrations | Bayerische Staatsbibliothek | Bayerische Staatsbibliothek |  |
| Cod.S.554 Illustrations | Zentralbibliothek Solothurn | WikiMedia Commons |  |
| Translation | Michael Chidester | Wiktenauer |  |
| Translation (Poleaxe) | Harrison Ridgeway | Private communication |  |
| Translation (Questions) | Jens P. Kleinau | Hans Talhoffer: A Historical Martial Arts blog by Jens P. Kleinau |  |
| Translation (Longshield) | Christian Henry Tobler | Freelance Academy Press | |
| Bologna Transcription | Dierk Hagedorn | Index:Paulus Kal Fechtbuch (MS 1825) | |
| Munich Transcription | Dierk Hagedorn | Index:Paulus Kal Fechtbuch (Cgm 1507) | |
| Vienna Transcription | Dierk Hagedorn | Index:Paulus Kal Fechtbuch (MS KK5126) | |
| Botticino Transcription | Index:Paulus Kal Fechtbuch (M.A.M. Kal MS) | |
|
| Solothurn Transcription | Index:Solothurner Fechtbuch (Cod.S.554) | |
|
| Gotha Transcription | Index:Paulus Kal Fechtbuch (MS Chart.B.1021) | |
http://digi.vatlib.it/view/bav_pal_lat_1787/0146
Transcriber's notes (Munich Version)
These are the transcription and the translation into Modern German of a manuscript by Paulus Kal. It is dedicated to count palatine Ludwig and was written in the second half of the 15th century. It is kept at the Bayerischen Saatsbibliothek in Munich, and on its website one can have a look at a black-and-white version. Due to copyright restraints I can only present the text passages here; empty pages or those which contain images but no text do not show up here.
The transcription
The transcription tries to follow the original as closely as possible. I have not dissolved the letter "v" in either "u" or "v". Abbreviations, duplication characters remain mostly intact - considering the restraints of internet typography. Further diacritical characterslike the letter "y" with a diaeresis are omitted.
Additionally I want to point to the work of the Gesellschaft für pragmatische Schriftlichkeit who have put an excellent edition about Paulus Kal's manuscripts on their website. Furthermore the American publishing house Chivalry Bookshelf have published a magnificent facsimile edition of the manuscript, edited and commented by Christian Tobler (meanwhile out of print).
- Dierk Hagedorn, September 2007
Translator's notes
Removed 'von Mörnsheim' from the preface translation, since that identification is not present in the text. -Tea (2022-03-06)
Contributors
Paulus Kal and supposed service to Ludwig IV "the Gentle" of Wittelsbach
Further to my recent edit comments on the Kal article, I believe the source of the idea that Kal may have served Ludwig IV of Wittelsbach may be http://www.pragmatische-schriftlichkeit.de/transkription/edition_paulus_kal.pdf, from 2006. This states that Bologna library which holds MS 1825 made a conclusion that Kal served Ludwig IV: "According to the library, this codex was created for Louis IV (1424-†1449, "the Gentle," Elector Palatine of the Wittelsbach family). It is assumed that Kal was approximately 20 years old when he entered the service of Louis IV." However, this claim is not made in any of the archival-based discussions of Kal's life, including Welle's 1993 Und wisse das alle höbischeit kome von dem ringen, Tobler's 2006 In Service of the Duke, or Kleinau's combination of archival and secondary sources at his 2011 article https://talhoffer.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/paulus-kal-a-schirrmeister/. The scope of a statement like this - "According to the library," and the list of the years - can very easily get lost in the shuffle if someone does not track all the way back to the particular place and particular way that this assertion of fact was first stated. If there is a further source for Kal's supposed service to Ludwig IV, then this assertion of fact should be restored to the Kal article; but otherwise, it may be a product of the "game of telephone" as various researchers worked from half-remembered pieces of information spread over more than a decade of blogs, independent websites, scattered publications, etc. -brian p
