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https://talhoffer.wordpress.com/2015/04/16/1434-hans-kuchler-and-johannes-hartlieb/
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{{Infobox writer
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| name                = Johannes Hartlieb
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| image                = file:Johannes Hartlieb.jpg
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| imagesize            = 150px
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| caption              =
  
"Curious also is the beginning of the manuscript: It starts with esoteric divination techniques Johannes Hartlieb, by which it will be possible to determine the winner of a duel." ~Dierk Hagedorn
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| pseudonym            =
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| birthname            =
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| birthdate            = ca. 1410
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| birthplace          = Ludwigsburg
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| deathdate            = 18 May 1468
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| deathplace          =
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| occupation          = [[occupation::Physician]]
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| nationality          =
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| ethnicity            =
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| citizenship          =
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| education            = Doctor
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| alma_mater          = University of Padua
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| patron              =
  
{| class=wikitable
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| spouse              = Sibilla Bernauer
|-valign=top
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| children            =  
! width=350 | {{rating}}
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| relatives            =  
! width=350 | Transcription
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| period              =
by [[Dierk Hagedorn]]
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| movement            =  
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| influences          =
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| influenced          =
  
|-valign=top
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| genre                =
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| language            =
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| notableworks        = ''Ueber die Erhaltung des Sieges''
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| archetype            =
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| manuscript(s)        = {{collapsible list
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| [[Talhoffer Fechtbuch (MS Chart.A.558)|MS Chart.A.558]] (1448)
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| [[Talhoffer Fechtbuch (MS 26.236)|MS 26.236]] (1500s)
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| [[Talhoffer Fechtbuch (2º Col.MS.Philos.61)|2º Col. MS philos. 61]] (1600s)
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| [[Talhoffer Sammelhandschrift (2º MS iurid. 29)|2º MS iurid. 29]] (1600s)
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| [[Talhoffer Fechtbuch (Cod.icon. 395)|Cod.icon. 395]] (1820)
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}}
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| principal manuscript(s)=
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| first printed edition=
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| wiktenauer compilation by=
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| signature            =
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| below                =
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}}
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'''Johannes Hartlieb''' (ca. 1410 - 18 May 1468) was a German physician, poet, and author, probably of a family from Neuburg an der Donau. By 1436 he was serving as parish priest of St. Moritz in Ingolstadt, but was removed in 1437 by Louis VII of Bavaria for neglecting his duties (he seems to have been in Vienna at the time). In 1439, Hartlieb received a doctorate in medicine from the University of Padua, and in 1440 he entered the service of Albert III of Bavaria. He would go on to serve Albert's son Sigismund as well (beginning in 1456). In 1444, he married Sibilla, daughter of Agnes Bernauer and (allegedly) Albert III, and ultimately they had three children together.
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Hartlieb was an acquaintance of German fencing master [[Hans Talhoffer]], and in February 1436 wrote him a letter suggesting a solution to the Villenbach case that Talhoffer had become enmeshed in.<ref>[[Jens P. Kleinau]]. "1434 Hans Kuchler and Johannes Hartlieb". ''[http://talhoffer.wordpress.com/2015/04/16/1434-hans-kuchler-and-johannes-hartlieb/ Hans Talhoffer ~ A Historical Martial Arts blog by Jens P. Kleinau]''. Retrieved 23 May 2015.</ref> Talhoffer went on to include a copy of Hartlieb's 1436 treatise ''Ueber die Erhaltung des Sieges'' ("On the Preservation of Victory"), which covered techniques of onomancy (divinations based on a subjects name) that could be used to determine the winner in a fight, in his own personal manuscript of 1448 ([[Talhoffer Fechtbuch (MS Chart.A.558)|MS Chart.A.558]]).
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Hartlieb also wrote a number of other treatises in his life on herbalism and various esoteric subjects, and seems especially to have had a fascination with magic. Early in his life this had a more positive cast, while his later works approach the subject with a more religious disapproval. As none of these texts are related to any extant fencing manuals, they will not be discussed here.
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== Treatise ==
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{{master begin
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| title = Onomancy
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| width = 90em
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}}
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{| class="master"
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|-
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! <p>Images</p>
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! <p>{{rating|start}}<br/>Open for editing</p>
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! <p>[[Talhoffer Fechtbuch (MS Chart.A.558)|Gotha Version]] (ca. 1448){{edit index|Talhoffer Fechtbuch (MS Chart.A.558)}}<br/>by [[Dierk Hagedorn]]</p>
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|-
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| [[File:MS Chart.A.558 002r.png|400x400px|center]]
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| <p>Firstly we must remark that the entire art of winning depends on the day which belongs to the combatant determined by the name he bears.</p>
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<p>You must know that almost all the great masters have ordinarily categorised names in two lists: the fist contains the names which are consecrated to the Our Lady, the Virgin Mary; the other to saint George. So that all names belonging to Our lady, in other words that are on her list, are called brothers of Our lady, and those which are found in the group consecrated to saint George, are called by them the brothers of saint George.</p>
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<p>Also, you should know that all the names which belong to the brothers of Our Lady obtain complete victory three days of each week and Sunday afternoon. Likewise, the brothers of saint George obtain complete victory three days of each week and Sunday morning (before noon).</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007r.jpg|1|lbl=07r}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, and the afternoon of Sunday are to the brothers of Our Lady.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007r.jpg|2|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and before noon on Sunday belong to the brothers of Saint George.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007r.jpg|3|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Now, one must know, when one provokes with the will to fight he must first make sure to start on his day, and make sure that the one who writes his letter of provocation is his brother, as well as the person who will deliver it, and that it is also their day. If he does this there is no doubt that the victory and advantage will be his. He should be careful not to mistaken the day, or miss it.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007r.jpg|4|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… we also have to remark that if someone provokes his ''brother in name'' on a day which belongs to both, it will be the person who provokes that will have the advantage. But if one of the two absolutely wants to risk fighting his brother, he should choose the days which does not belong to him; for example if he is a brother of Saint George and he wants to fight against another brother of Saint George, he should begin the preliminaries on a day which belongs to the brothers of Our Lady, for example Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday, and on the same day he should send the message or answer it.</p>
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|
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{{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007r.jpg|5|lbl=-|p=1}} {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007v.jpg|1|lbl=07v|p=1}}
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|-  
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|
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| <p>The same applies to the brothers of our Lady; they have to chose for themselves the days belonging to the brothers of Saint George.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007v.jpg|2|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… we assure that one must guard themselves from the changing of a complaint or answer, because from the one who provokes their could be the result that another will be provoked and the same calculation could be made in reverse, and this should be avoided for many people will be wronged.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007v.jpg|3|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… know also that the challenger and the defender must wait so that the provocation or the response happens on their day, after which they may do what they want.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007v.jpg|4|lbl=-}}
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 +
|-
 +
|
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| <p>Item… it is known that he who fights on a day which is not his will inevitably be injured. However, when someone fights his brother on a day which is not his the challenger will win, in another case it is he who will be defeated.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007v.jpg|5|lbl=-}}
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|-
 
|  
 
|  
| [http://www.hammaborg.de/de/transkriptionen/talhoffer_gotha_a558/01_hartlieb.php Transcription]
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| <p>Item… if you wish to know when two men should fight who will be injured and in which part of his body, do the following. If he who is the victor has fought a brother of the same name on a day which belongs to them, he will not be victorious; the challenger will be injured though the victory should be his.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007v.jpg|6|lbl=-}}
  
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… if he fights before noon, his injury will be over his belt, and if he fights in the afternoon, he will be injured beneath the belt.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007v.jpg|7|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… do you want to know to what member (extremity) he will be injured, it is very nice to reveal this to people; do the following. You will know that in the cabalistic arts every day is divided into twelve hours. Of these twelve hours six are before noon and six in the afternoon.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007v.jpg|8|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… whether the day be short or long, we must (begin to) divide it immediately at the first hour when the sun rises right all the way up to the sunset.</p>
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|
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{{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 007v.jpg|9|lbl=-|p=1}} {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 008r.jpg|1|lbl=08r|p=1}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Take very good heed that on the odd hours he will be injured on his right side and on the even hours on his left side. If someone fights in the first hour of the morning, he will be injured on the right side of the head and neck, but if he fights on the third hour of the morning, he will be injured on the right of the chest and right arm. If he fights on the fifth hour, he will be injured on the right hand side.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 008r.jpg|2|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… if he fights on the second hour, he will be injured on the left side of the head or neck; if he fights on the fourth hour, he will be injured to the left side of the chest and the left arm; but if he fights in the sixth hour, he will be injured on left side below the belt.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 008r.jpg|3|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… if he fights on the first hour of the afternoon, he will be injured to the right hand side on the hip over the thigh; if he fights the third hour, he will be injured on the thigh on the right hand side over the knee. If he fights on the fifth hour, his injury will on his right leg under the knee.</p>
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<p>If he fights the second hour in the afternoon, he will be injured to the left side close to the hip; if he fights on the fourth hour, he will be injured to the left thigh above the knee; if he fights in the sixth hour he will be injured to the left leg above the knee.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 008r.jpg|4|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>We must also make the point it can happen that a combatant will be injured in two places. This happens when the combat last many consecutive hours, we have to rely on this.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 008r.jpg|5|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… now I will indicate the names of the brothers of Our Lady and the brothers of Saint George.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 008v.jpg|1|lbl=08v}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>First here are the names of Our Lady:</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 008v.jpg|2|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… here are the brothers of Saint George:</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 009r.jpg|1|lbl=09r}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>This is the true art and the exact names of the brothers of Our Lady and of those of saint-George, and he who follows this is sure not to fail.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 009v.jpg|1|lbl=09v}}
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|-
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|
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|
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{|
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|-
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| Item. I want to write more Pythagorean tables || I
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|-
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| Item. one from Potlemy || II
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|-
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| Item. one from Plato || III
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|-
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| Item. one from Aristotle || IV
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|-
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| Item. one from Haly || V
 
|}
 
|}
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 009v.jpg|2|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item. In these tables you will find what I say latter.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 009v.jpg|3|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… in the following tables you will find who will have the victory when two battle, wrestle or fight with swords, or in any other way.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 009v.jpg|4|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… between two friends which one will die first.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 009v.jpg|5|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… if one will die of a sickness or if he will recover.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 009v.jpg|6|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… If a sentence (judgement) will be respected or not</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 009v.jpg|7|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… if something is good or bad.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 009v.jpg|8|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… you ought to know that there a five figures (clocks), and when these five figures indicate the same thing (agree) one after the other there is no doubt that these things will happen as indicated. But if the figures do not agree with each other, it is because there is an error; so regulate yourselves on them.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 009v.jpg|9|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… there are some clocks which we divide (by) XXX, others IX, and others VII, according to what the figures are, which I will indicate for every figure, with a key of A, B, C.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010r.jpg|1|lbl=10r}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… you should also know that all these figures (diagrams) are taken from astronomy.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010r.jpg|2|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… we also will write the names in Latin and with Latin letters and not with anything else.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010r.jpg|3|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… we will make sure to place and subtract the numbers precisely, for a (mistake in a) number can result in a serious error.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010r.jpg|4|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… now I will cite the first figure, which is called Pythagoras’s figure (clock).</p>
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<p>In this figure (diagram), we find the answer for all questions, for a bad or happy events.</p>
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<p>Firstly, write the name or what you want to know, on a table, in chalk, and with Latin letters, and indicate for each letter the number which is found in the circle A, b, c, and subtract the number XXX as many times as you can; keep the rest and add it to the opposite part, that is the other name in the A,b,c, and then find on which side it is found. Be very careful when you do this.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010r.jpg|5|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… you will notice, as indicated below, that this figure is divided in VI parts.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010r.jpg|6|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… the top part of the figure, in the middle, signifies happiness, victory, life and good luck.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010r.jpg|7|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… the part which is to the right, also indicates happiness, but with a slight delay: therefore it is favourable.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010r.jpg|8|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… what is placed opposite, to the left, signifies good luck, but this only happens by a small margin. When it happens in the numbers, it happens but with much difficulty. This is the case for all things.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010v.jpg|1|lbl=10v}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>After this, you will observe the lower part in the middle of the figure: this signifies a prompt death, a complete defeat in all things.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010v.jpg|2|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… the numbers that follow to the right, a loss, death or defeat, depending on the question asked, but with a slight delay.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010v.jpg|3|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… the numbers which are found in front, to the left, also signify a loss, death, pain, and defeat, but by a small margin, so that he who believes he has won loses: regulate yourselves on this.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010v.jpg|4|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… in this figure you will find everything which we can ask; whether an enterprise will have a successful outcome or not. Firstly, we write the name or what we want to know, on a table, in chalk and with Latin letters, and indicate for each letter the number which is found in the circle A, b, c, and divide by the number XXX as many times as we can; we keep the rest and add it to the opposite part, that is the other name in the A,b,c. Then we will find on which side (section) it is found and when we find it we keep it well.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010v.jpg|5|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… you will find, as I will indicate, that that this figure is divided in VI parts.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010v.jpg|6|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… the top part of the figure, in the middle, represents a real chance, the victory, life and everything which is good.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010v.jpg|7|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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|
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010v.jpg|8|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… the top part to the left signifies good, but happens by a very thin margin. When it is found in numbers, what is indicated happens with much difficulty; it is like this with a lot of things.</p>
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|
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{{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 010v.jpg|9|lbl=-|p=1}} {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 011r.jpg|1|lbl=11r|p=1}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>You will then notice, what is in the centre of the figure (diagram), is a prompt death, defeat and loss in all things.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 011r.jpg|2|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… the numbers to the right, depending on the question, signify loss, death, defeat, but with a slight delay.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 011r.jpg|3|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>It… the numbers to the left, in relation to the preceding ones, signify, loss, death, pain and defeat, but with much sorrow, so that he who thinks he is the victor is actually the vanquished. Know how to regulate yourselves with this.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 011r.jpg|4|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>'''First Table (Diagram) of the Great Master Pythagoras:'''</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 011r.jpg|5|lbl=-}}
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|-
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|
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| <p>Item… in A,b,c we calculate what we want to know with the number, which represents the age of the moon, meaning the number of days since the new moon. We divide by XXX as many times possible and we find what is left in the divisions in the first figure. If we find a number on the favourable side, the meaning is according to the side that it is found.</p>
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| {{section|Page:MS Chart.A.558 011r.jpg|6|lbl=-}}
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For further information, including transcription and translation notes, see the [[Talk:{{PAGENAME}}|discussion page]].
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| work        = Images
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| authors    = [[Universitäts- und Forschungsbibliothek Erfurt/Gotha|Forschungsbibliothek Erfurt/Gotha]]
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| source link = https://archive.thulb.uni-jena.de/ufb/receive/ufb_cbu_00009967
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| work        = [[Talhoffer Fechtbuch (MS Chart.A.558)|Gotha Version]]
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| authors    = [[Dierk Hagedorn]]
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| source title= [[Index:Talhoffer Fechtbuch (MS Chart.A.558)]]
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== Additional Resources ==
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* [[Gustav Hergsell|Hergsell, Gustav]], and '''Talhoffer, Hans'''. ''[http://jfgilles.perso.sfr.fr/escrime/bibliotheque/talhoffer_gotha/index.html Livre d'escrime de Talhoffer (codex Gotha) de l'an 1443]''. Prague: Chez L'Auteur, 1893.
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* Hergsell, Gustav, and '''Talhoffer, Hans'''. {{Google books|-3oVAAAAYAAJ|Talhoffers Fechtbuch (Gothaer Codex) aus dem Jahre 1443: gerichtliche und andere Zweikämpfe darstellend}}. Prague: Selbstverlag, 1889.
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== References ==
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{{reflist}}
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{{DEFAULTSORT:Hartlieb, Johannes}}
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[[Category:German]]
  
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[[Category:Esoterica]]

Latest revision as of 23:41, 18 December 2022

Johannes Hartlieb
Born ca. 1410
Ludwigsburg
Died 18 May 1468
Spouse(s) Sibilla Bernauer
Occupation Physician
Education Doctor
Alma mater University of Padua
Notable work(s) Ueber die Erhaltung des Sieges
Manuscript(s)

Johannes Hartlieb (ca. 1410 - 18 May 1468) was a German physician, poet, and author, probably of a family from Neuburg an der Donau. By 1436 he was serving as parish priest of St. Moritz in Ingolstadt, but was removed in 1437 by Louis VII of Bavaria for neglecting his duties (he seems to have been in Vienna at the time). In 1439, Hartlieb received a doctorate in medicine from the University of Padua, and in 1440 he entered the service of Albert III of Bavaria. He would go on to serve Albert's son Sigismund as well (beginning in 1456). In 1444, he married Sibilla, daughter of Agnes Bernauer and (allegedly) Albert III, and ultimately they had three children together.

Hartlieb was an acquaintance of German fencing master Hans Talhoffer, and in February 1436 wrote him a letter suggesting a solution to the Villenbach case that Talhoffer had become enmeshed in.[1] Talhoffer went on to include a copy of Hartlieb's 1436 treatise Ueber die Erhaltung des Sieges ("On the Preservation of Victory"), which covered techniques of onomancy (divinations based on a subjects name) that could be used to determine the winner in a fight, in his own personal manuscript of 1448 (MS Chart.A.558).

Hartlieb also wrote a number of other treatises in his life on herbalism and various esoteric subjects, and seems especially to have had a fascination with magic. Early in his life this had a more positive cast, while his later works approach the subject with a more religious disapproval. As none of these texts are related to any extant fencing manuals, they will not be discussed here.

Treatise

Additional Resources

References

  1. Jens P. Kleinau. "1434 Hans Kuchler and Johannes Hartlieb". Hans Talhoffer ~ A Historical Martial Arts blog by Jens P. Kleinau. Retrieved 23 May 2015.