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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Pseudo-Peter von Danzig"
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| − | + | == Translation Notes (Mike Rasmusson) == | |
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| − | + | The translation of the longsword chapter is based on Grzegorz Zabinsky's transcript of Goliath (MS 2020), a multi-weapon fechtbuch whose chapters correspond closely with the "Danzig" fechtbuch of 1452 (MS 1449). The fechtbuch begins with the longsword chapter, a recital of Liechtenauer's verses which follows with line by line commentary and examples, similar to other 15th century fechtbücher. | |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | The translation of Johannes Liechtenauer's armoured fencing treatise is based on the version recorded in the Codex 1449 manuscript compiled by Peter von Danzig in 1452 (Danzig's fechtbuch). This treatise was transcribed by Grzegorz Zabinsky, made available by Die Freifechter, and translated by Mike Rasmusson. | |
| − | {{ | + | |
| − | + | This fechtbuch, like other 15th century fechtbücher, starts with a recital of Johannes Liechtenauer's Art of the Long Sword, a series of verses which according to 15th century sources was written in 1368. Following this is an expansion on the verses where each verse has an accompanying lesson or gloss. This version of Liechtenauer's lessons was committed to text in 1452. | |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | Since the lessons given in several 15th century fechtbücher are so similar, it may be because they come from a common source rather than by cribbing from each other as has been suggested. The common source may have been Liechtenauer's own lessons on how to teach the art, lessons which were both learned and taught orally by Liechtenauer's association of masters. It seems they were committed to script only after the masters deaths. Peter von Danzig was a member of this association and these lessons are presumably the ones he learned from Liechtenauer, if one accepts the supposition that his school is the origin of this text. | |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | Note that the expression "shortened sword" refers to "half sword" and not the short or arming sword. | |
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| − | + | === Notes on terms used in the translation: === | |
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| − | + | ''Arc Strike'' – Krumphau. Krump can mean curved, arched, arcing, bent, and crooked. The path taken by the point of the sword in this strike is an arc up from the bind. | |
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| − | + | ''Glance Strike'' – Schielhau. Schiel can mean squint or glance. A glance is a quick on-off contact, whether optically or otherwise. This strike glances to the inside line, it does not squint in any way. | |
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| − | }} | + | ''Hengen'' is usually translated as ''hanging'' or hanger, including in this text. The word can also mean ''to execute''. The hengen are the two point forward primary guards. When one attains one of these guards in the engagement, it's usually a fight ender. The guards are the executioners. |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ''Indes'' is translated as ''immediately'' in this text, although this captures only part of the concept. Some others have this as ''during'', I used to prefer ''just as''. The German word indes is derived from Latin intus, meaning ''within''. The concept can be summed as “''Just as'' you sense what is happening, you ''immediately'' excecute a certain move ''within'' the engagement at the bind. | |
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| − | + | ''Scheitelhau'' is sometimes translated as ''Scalp Strike''. Scheitel can also refer to an apex or top level. I have translated it as ''Vertex Strike''. Stefan Dieke prefers ''Apex Strike'' but the meaning is the same. | |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ''Winden'' is usually translated as ''winding'', including in this text. This can also mean ''twisting''. Winden is when one twists to one of the hengen in the engagement, as in twisting to execute. | |
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Latest revision as of 00:33, 3 November 2022
Translation Notes (Mike Rasmusson)
The translation of the longsword chapter is based on Grzegorz Zabinsky's transcript of Goliath (MS 2020), a multi-weapon fechtbuch whose chapters correspond closely with the "Danzig" fechtbuch of 1452 (MS 1449). The fechtbuch begins with the longsword chapter, a recital of Liechtenauer's verses which follows with line by line commentary and examples, similar to other 15th century fechtbücher.
The translation of Johannes Liechtenauer's armoured fencing treatise is based on the version recorded in the Codex 1449 manuscript compiled by Peter von Danzig in 1452 (Danzig's fechtbuch). This treatise was transcribed by Grzegorz Zabinsky, made available by Die Freifechter, and translated by Mike Rasmusson.
This fechtbuch, like other 15th century fechtbücher, starts with a recital of Johannes Liechtenauer's Art of the Long Sword, a series of verses which according to 15th century sources was written in 1368. Following this is an expansion on the verses where each verse has an accompanying lesson or gloss. This version of Liechtenauer's lessons was committed to text in 1452.
Since the lessons given in several 15th century fechtbücher are so similar, it may be because they come from a common source rather than by cribbing from each other as has been suggested. The common source may have been Liechtenauer's own lessons on how to teach the art, lessons which were both learned and taught orally by Liechtenauer's association of masters. It seems they were committed to script only after the masters deaths. Peter von Danzig was a member of this association and these lessons are presumably the ones he learned from Liechtenauer, if one accepts the supposition that his school is the origin of this text.
Note that the expression "shortened sword" refers to "half sword" and not the short or arming sword.
Notes on terms used in the translation:
Arc Strike – Krumphau. Krump can mean curved, arched, arcing, bent, and crooked. The path taken by the point of the sword in this strike is an arc up from the bind.
Glance Strike – Schielhau. Schiel can mean squint or glance. A glance is a quick on-off contact, whether optically or otherwise. This strike glances to the inside line, it does not squint in any way.
Hengen is usually translated as hanging or hanger, including in this text. The word can also mean to execute. The hengen are the two point forward primary guards. When one attains one of these guards in the engagement, it's usually a fight ender. The guards are the executioners.
Indes is translated as immediately in this text, although this captures only part of the concept. Some others have this as during, I used to prefer just as. The German word indes is derived from Latin intus, meaning within. The concept can be summed as “Just as you sense what is happening, you immediately excecute a certain move within the engagement at the bind.
Scheitelhau is sometimes translated as Scalp Strike. Scheitel can also refer to an apex or top level. I have translated it as Vertex Strike. Stefan Dieke prefers Apex Strike but the meaning is the same.
Winden is usually translated as winding, including in this text. This can also mean twisting. Winden is when one twists to one of the hengen in the engagement, as in twisting to execute.
