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Difference between revisions of "Other Masters (14th Century)"

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{{master begin
 
{{master begin
  | title = [[Longsword]]
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  | title = [[Long sword]]
 
  | width = 87em
 
  | width = 87em
 
}}
 
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! style="width:3em;" |  
 
! style="width:3em;" |  
 
! <p>{{rating|B|Completed Translation (from the Nuremberg)}}<br/>by [[Thomas Stoeppler]]</p>
 
! <p>{{rating|B|Completed Translation (from the Nuremberg)}}<br/>by [[Thomas Stoeppler]]</p>
! <p>[[Codex Döbringer (MS 3227a)|Nuremberg Transcription]] (ca. 1389)<br/>by [[Dierk Hagedorn]]</p>
+
! <p>[[Codex Döbringer (MS 3227a)|Nuremberg Transcription]] (ca. 1389){{edit index|Codex Döbringer (MS 3227a)}}<br/>by [[Dierk Hagedorn]]</p>
! <p>[[Glasgow Fechtbuch (MS E.1939.65.341)|Glasgow Transcription]] (1508)<br/>by [[Dierk Hagedorn]]</p>
+
! <p>[[Glasgow Fechtbuch (MS E.1939.65.341)|Glasgow Transcription]] (1508){{edit index|Glasgow Fechtbuch (MS E.1939.65.341)}}<br/>by [[Dierk Hagedorn]]</p>
  
 
|-  
 
|-  
| <br/><br/><br/>
+
|  
 +
<br/><br/><br/>
 
<poem><small>[1]</small>
 
<poem><small>[1]</small>
  
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<small>[10]</small>
+
<small>[10]</small></poem>
 +
|
 +
[1] {{red|b=1|Here begin the fencing techniques of the other masters: Hanko priest of Doebringen, Andre the Jew, Josts from the neice, Niclas of prussia.}}
 +
<poem>If he is a bold man /
 +
:Who also likes to dare
 +
To learn the art of the sword /
 +
:and also wishes to practice it seriously
 +
Because it is a gentleman´s game /
 +
:and brings lots of pleasure and fun
 +
And before knights and squires /
 +
:so that he can fence well
 +
I will give him three pieces of advice /
 +
:which he should always adhere to</poem>
 +
| {{section|page:MS 3227a 43r.jpg|1|lbl=43r}}
 +
| {{section|page:MS E.1939.65.341 027r.jpg|1|lbl=27r}}
  
 +
|-
 +
| <poem>&nbsp;
  
  
  
<small>[15]</small>
+
<small>[15]</small></poem>
 
+
|
 +
<poem>[2] The first advice is also good /
 +
:whoever fences easily
 +
wittily and without all wrath /
 +
:this fencer seldom will loose
 +
If he additionally fences according to the teachings /
 +
:he will win even more</poem>
 +
| {{section|page:MS 3227a 43r.jpg|2|lbl=-}}
 +
| {{section|page:MS E.1939.65.341 027r.jpg|2|lbl=-}}
  
 +
|-
 +
| <poem>&nbsp;
  
  
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<small>[35]</small>
+
<small>[35]</small></poem>
 
+
|
 
+
<poem>[3] The second advice is this /  
 
 
 
 
<small>[40]</small>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
<small>[45]</small>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
<small>[50]</small>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
<small>[55]</small>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
<small>[60]</small>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
<small>[65]</small>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
<small>[70]</small>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
<small>[75]</small>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
<small>[80]</small></poem>
 
| '''[1] Here begin the fencing techniques of the other masters: Hanko priest of Doebringen, Andre the Jew, Josts from the neice, Niclas of prussia.'''
 
<poem>If he is a bold man /
 
:Who also likes to dare
 
To learn the art of the sword /
 
:and also wishes to practice it seriously
 
Because it is a gentleman´s game /
 
:and brings lots of pleasure and fun
 
And before knights and squires /
 
:so that he can fence well
 
I will give him three pieces of advice /
 
:which he should always adhere to
 
The first advice is also good /
 
:whoever fences easily
 
wittily and without all wrath /
 
:this fencer seldom will loose
 
If he additionally fences according to the teachings /
 
:he will win even more
 
The second advice is this /  
 
 
:and I will tell you now
 
:and I will tell you now
 
No man should be too stupid /  
 
No man should be too stupid /  
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:He should rather stay in a bed
 
:He should rather stay in a bed
 
And should have run away and lie down /  
 
And should have run away and lie down /  
:instead of practicing this foolishness
+
:instead of practicing this foolishness</poem>
It does often happen that a man /  
+
|
 +
{{section|page:MS 3227a 43r.jpg|3|lbl=-|p=1}}<br/>{{section|page:MS 3227a 43v.jpg|1|lbl=43v|p=1}}
 +
| {{section|page:MS E.1939.65.341 027r.jpg|3|lbl=-}}
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
| <poem>&nbsp;
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
<small>[40]</small></poem>
 +
|
 +
<poem>[4] It does often happen that a man /  
 
:has to stand against four or six
 
:has to stand against four or six
  
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:by being knightly and wittily
 
:by being knightly and wittily
 
And so he may stand against all men /  
 
And so he may stand against all men /  
:Rightfully against a brave man
+
:Rightfully against a brave man</poem>
So all hear /  
+
| {{section|page:MS 3227a 43v.jpg|2|lbl=-}}
 +
| {{section|page:MS E.1939.65.341 027r.jpg|4|lbl=-}}
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
| <poem>&nbsp;
 +
 
 +
<small>[45]</small>
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
<small>[50]</small></poem>
 +
|
 +
<poem>[5] So all hear /  
 
:everyone without fear
 
:everyone without fear
 
Fridank the wise man /  
 
Fridank the wise man /  
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:rightfully without rebuke
 
:rightfully without rebuke
 
Free from daringness and overstatement /  
 
Free from daringness and overstatement /  
:that he is a real bold man.
+
:that he is a real bold man.</poem>
I will give you the third advice /  
+
| {{section|page:MS 3227a 43v.jpg|3|lbl=-}}
 +
| {{section|page:MS E.1939.65.341 027r.jpg|5|lbl=-}}
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
| <poem>&nbsp;
 +
 
 +
<small>[55]</small>
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
<small>[60]</small>
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
<small>[65]</small>
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
<small>[70]</small></poem>
 +
|
 +
<poem>[6] I will give you the third advice /  
 
:you should not learn fencing
 
:you should not learn fencing
 
To overpower someone with your art /  
 
To overpower someone with your art /  
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:And not for nothing or out of foolishness
 
:And not for nothing or out of foolishness
 
So you may succeed always /  
 
So you may succeed always /  
:because a fencer / is a good and righteous man.
+
:because a fencer / is a good and righteous man.</poem>
Fencing has been invented /  
+
|
 +
{{section|page:MS 3227a 43v.jpg|4|lbl=-|p=1}}<br/>{{section|page:MS 3227a 44r.jpg|1|lbl=44r|p=1}}
 +
| {{section|page:MS E.1939.65.341 027v.jpg|1|lbl=27v}}
 +
 
 +
|-
 +
| <poem>&nbsp;
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
<small>[75]</small></poem>
 +
|
 +
<poem>[7] Fencing has been invented /  
 
:to be seriously practiced
 
:to be seriously practiced
 
And in good real grace /  
 
And in good real grace /  
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:and with god and rightfully I praise.
 
:and with god and rightfully I praise.
 
[End]</poem>
 
[End]</poem>
| '''[43r] <span style="color:#A40000">Hie hebt sich an • der ander meist° gefechte / Hanko pfaffen döbringers •:~ Andres Juden • Josts von der nyssen • Niclas prewßen / etc</span>'''
+
| {{section|page:MS 3227a 44r.jpg|2|lbl=-}}
<poem><span style="color:#A40000">I</span>st hie yndert eyn degen
+
| {{section|page:MS E.1939.65.341 027v.jpg|2|lbl=-}}
der sich dorczu wölle wegen
 
Czu lernen mit dem swerte
 
vnd sich auch doran kerte
 
wen is ist eyn höfeliches spil
 
vnd hat lüst vnd frewden vil
 
vor ritter vnd vor knechten
 
Is das her fichtet rechte
 
So wil ich im gebñ drey rete
 
dy sal her halden stete
 
Der erste rat ist auch gut
 
wer do ficht mit geringen mut
 
witzicleich an allen czorn
 
der fechter wirt selden vorlorn
 
ficht her and°s noch der lere
 
her gesigt vm~ermere
 
Der ander rat ist das
 
den wil ich nu sagen bas
 
das keyn man zo tump / sal seyn
 
weñe das selbe fechte~ bre~get pyn
 
der vier ader seche slaen wil
 
der nym~et ofte schaden vil
 
weñe im wirt vil ofte eyn slag /
 
den her nicht abe wischen mag /
 
den mus her im nu haben
 
Schande gespötte vnd auch de~ schaden
 
weñe dy selben nerreleyn
 
wellen io dy besten seyn
 
'''[43v]''' Is ist nicht rechte kuenheit
 
zonder eyn grosse narheit
 
der vier ader sechse will bestan
 
wirt im icht / daz mus h° im han
 
zam hers im gekawfet hette
 
Is wer vil besser in eynem bette
 
dy weile gesucht vnd gelegen
 
den sülcher grosser torheit pflegen
 
Is ku~pt ofte das eyn man
 
vier ader sechze mus bestan
 
<del>Tut heñe witzicleich</del>
 
Tut/her deñe ritterlich
 
ader kpt/von in witczicleich
 
der mag wol alle mal bestan
 
Recht vor eynen künen man
 
Doch horet alle / offenbar
 
genczlich an alle var
 
ffridank der kluge man
 
Spricht das an allen wan
 
der ist genant eyn küner man
 
der synen gleich tar bestan
 
den wil ich preisen an aller stat
 
Ritterlich ane missetat
 
von türsten vnd von ku~heit frey
 
das her eyn rechter degen sey
 
Den dritten rat wil ich dir gebñ
 
den saltu vom mir of nemen
 
du salt nicht dorv<sup>e</sup>m lerne~ fechte~ •
 
das du eyme czu vnrechte /
 
mit dyner ku~st wölst öberlegen
 
In sülcher weize saltu nicht pflegen
 
'''[44r]''' fechtens mit eynem fromen man
 
Is trete deñe erhaftige not an
 
mit dyn° ku~st / v<sup>e</sup>m zöst / nymãt dri~ge
 
wiltu das dir sölle gelingen
 
In allem gefechte zo rat ich dir <del>vol</del>/
 
vorlas dich of dy~ ku~st nicht czu ser
 
vnd hab den ö dbristñ / gerechtñ fecht° vor oge~ /
 
das her dich / by dyner ku~st icht pfloge
 
Vnd v<sup>e</sup>be dyne ku~st czu nöten / yn rechtvertikeit
 
vnd nicht vm~e züst • ader yn narhait
 
So magstu alle mal bestan
 
vör eyn fecht° / als ey~ gut° gerecht° man
 
we~ dorvm ist derdocht fechten
 
das man is sal v<sup>e</sup>ben in rechte
 
vnd in guter worer hobischeit
 
wen is bre~gt gelenkheit / list vnd klugheit
 
vnde / ku~pt auch oft / das eyn man
 
eynen v<sup>e</sup>m ere / leib / vnd gut mus bestan
 
gesigt her deñe mit syn° ku~st ritt°lich
 
mit gote vnd mit rechte • daz lobe ich</poem>
 
| '''[27r] <span style="color:#A40000">Hie hebt sich an ettlicher maistern gefechte Andres Juden Jobs von der Nyssen Nicklass prewsñ Hans pfaffen Döbringers</span>'''
 
<poem>Ist hie yndert ein degen
 
der sich darzu~ welle wegen
 
Zu lerñ mit dem schwerte
 
Vnd sich auch daran kerte
 
Wan es ist ein hofflich spill
 
vnd hat lust vnd freidñ vil
 
Vor ritterñ vnd vor knechtñ
 
ist das er vicht gerechte
 
So wil ich im gebñ drew ratte
 
die sol er haltñ statte
 
Der erst rat ist auch gu~et
 
wer do ficht mit <sup>ge</sup>ringem mu~et
 
Witzigklich on allen Zorñ
 
der vechter wirt stlm~ verlorñ
 
ficht er anderst nach der lere
 
Er gesicht ymermere
 
Der ander rat ist das
 
den wil ich nu~ sag baß
 
das kain man zu~ ku~en sol sein
 
wan das selbig fechtñ bringet pein
 
der vier oder sechs schlagñ wil
 
der nymet offt schadñ vill
 
wan im wirt vil offt ein schlag
 
den er nit ab/wischen mag
 
den mu~ß er im nu~ haben
 
Schandt spot vnd auch den schaden
 
Wan die selben nar°lein
 
wollñ ia die besten sein
 
Es ist nit rechte ku~nheit
 
Sunder ein grosse narrheit
 
der vier oder sechs wil bestan
 
wirt im icht das mu~eß er im han
 
Sam er ims gekauffet hette
 
es wer vil pesser im eine~ bette
 
die weil gesu~echt vnd gelegñ
 
dan solicher grosser torhait pflegen
 
Es kumbt offt das ein man
 
vier oder sechs muß beston
 
 
thu~et er dan ritterlich
 
Oder kumbt von in witzigklich
 
der mag wol alle mal beston
 
recht vor aine~ ku~neg man
 
Doch horet alle offenwar
 
gentzlich on alle gfar
 
freydanck der klu~ge man
 
Spricht das on allen wan
 
der ist genandt ein ku~ner man
 
der seinen gleich thor bestan
 
den wil ich preyssen an aller stat
 
ritterlich one missetat
 
von fu~rsten vnd ku~eñ freÿ
 
das er ein rechter degen sey
 
'''[27v]''' Den drittñ rat will ich dir gebñ
 
den soldu von mir auff nemen
 
du solst nit darumb lerñ fechtñ
 
das du einem zu vngerechtem
 
mit deiner kunst wellest õberlegen
 
in solicher weiß soltu~ nit pflegñ
 
fechtens mit einem fremden man
 
es trett dich dan erhafftig nott an
 
mit deiner kunst vmb sunst nÿmat dringñ
 
wildu das dir soll gelingen
 
In allem gefechtñ so rat ich dir
 
verlaß dich auff die kunst nit zu~ ser°
 
vnd hab den õbristñ rechtñ vecht~ vor augen
 
das er dich beÿ deiner kunst nit plage
 
vnd vbe dein kunst in nõttñ in rechtigkait
 
vnd nicht vmbsunst oder in nar°hait
 
Somagst du alle mal bestan
 
vor aine~ fecht~ als ain gutt~ gerecht~ man
 
Wan daru~b ist er doch fechtñ
 
das man es sol vben in rechtem
 
Vnd in warre° guett~ hubsichait
 
wen es pringt gelenckhait list vñ klu~g[heit]
 
vnd kumb offt das auch ein man
 
Eine~ vmb err gu~tt leib mu~ß bestan
 
Gesigter den mit seiner° kunst ritterlich
 
Mit got vnd mit rechte das lob ich
 
Telos</poem>
 
  
 
|-  
 
|-  
 
|  
 
|  
| '''[2]''' Here learn and know, that I will not mention many of these master fencing techniques because you can find them before and completely in Liechtenauers art and fencing, according to real art. However for the sake of practice and school fencing I will briefly and simply describe some techniques and methods of their fencing.
+
| [8] Here learn and know, that I will not mention many of these master fencing techniques because you can find them before and completely in Liechtenauers art and fencing, according to real art. However for the sake of practice and school fencing I will briefly and simply describe some techniques and methods of their fencing.
| Hie merke vnd wisse / das ich vil deser meist°/gefechte vnderwege~ lasse / dorvm~e daz man sie gar / vnd auch gerecht / yn lichtnaw°s kunst vnd fechten / vor hat / noch worhaftiger ku~st / Doch durch v<sup>e</sup>bunge vnd schulfechtens wille / wil ich etzliche stöcke vnd gesetze ihres gefechte~s / mit slechter vnd korczer rede schriben etc /
+
| {{section|page:MS 3227a 44r.jpg|3|lbl=-}}
| Hie merck vnd wisse / das ich diesser maisterñ fechtñ vndter[?] lasse / daru~b das man sÿ gar vnd auch gerecht in liechñaw<del>ff</del>ers kunst vnd fechtñ vor hat nach warhafftiger ku~nst / Doch durch vbunge vnd schu~lfchtens willñ Wil ich etzliche Stück vnd gsetze irs fechtns mit schlechter vnd kurtzer rede schreibñ
+
| {{section|page:MS E.1939.65.341 027v.jpg|3|lbl=-}}
  
 
|-  
 
|-  

Revision as of 19:03, 29 September 2015

Ettlicher Maistern Gefechte
The Other Master Swordsmen
Author(s)
Date late 1300s
Language Middle High German
Manuscript(s)
First Printed
English Edition
Żabiński, 2008
Concordance by Michael Chidester
Translations

Andres Juden (Andres "the Jew"), the priest Hans Döbringer, Jobs von der Nissen, and Nicklass Preußen are four 14th century German fencing masters in the tradition of Johannes Liechtenauer. None of these men is mentioned by Paulus Kal as being a member of the Society of Liechtenauer with the possible exception of Andres the Jew (which might be a reference to Andre Liegniczer).

Attributed to these four masters is an addendum to Liechtenauer's Recital which primarily discusses fencing from the guard Eisen Pforte ("the iron gate"), a variant on Alber. Sigmund Schining ain Ringeck also treated fencing from this guard in his addendum to Liechtenauer's teachings, but there is little technical overlap between the two teachings.

Treatise

Additional Resources

References

  1. Word order reversed, the correct order indicated by markings is used here.
  2. The rest of the line disappears in the binding
  3. Does not expect your attack
  4. I removed “and an Unterhau from the right” , since it is obviously a mistake.
  5. * the text says "Pfobenzagel" yet the description is that of the Krauthacke.